Guess what???

I’m celebrating 3 consecutive days of a non-smelly washer and non-smelly laundry—the first time in months, since the problem first occurred!!  Thank you, thank you, thank you…

I thought I would never get the problem fixed.  I was so depressed and disgusted I was on the verge of buying a new washer (even this one is less than two years old)—but I did not know of any that was free of the problem.

I actually didn’t have to do the long soak.  Later on Monday I did two large loads using 4 scoops of Nu Fresh in each load.  Afterwards the drum smelled pretty clean but there was a very slight smell from the dispenser.  I am not sure whether this was a slight bad washer smell or the residual smell from of all the disinfectant, bleach, etc that I had used.

Yesterday I did five large to medium loads.  I used four scoops in the first three loads, then two scoops in the remaining loads.

I am not going to use the washer for a few days, then see whether I can get on a successful maintenance schedule as per the standard instructions.  I’ll let you know how it goes next week.

From: Thomas []
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 5:47 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Well, there isn’t an obvious dead end shown in the drawings. But the problem is acting like there is one. So the soaking is the best action to see if you can get to the contamination.

When you do your long soak use 8 scoops in the drum and as much and you can fit into the dispenser. This will put a lot of boron into the system.

Good luck

From:  []
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 1:40 PM
To: 'Thomas'
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Hi, Thomas.

I rec’d the second package of Nu Fresh today.  Thank you.   

A little later today I am going to try your suggestion of washing a few really large loads using four scoops of Nu Fresh.  I’ll let you know what happens.

Also, over the weekend I tried to follow up on your thought of a “dead end” in the washer plumbing that might be harboring mildew.  My husband was able to get some diagrams of the machine from the Bosch website (I’ve attached copies).  Washer4.bmp seems to be the most helpful.  It looks like this shows the water intake and outlet.  On this diagram, it seems that the most likely places for residual mildew (besides the drum) would be in the detergent dispenser (between parts 0413-0415) where there is a ribbed connector and in the outlet between parts 0426-0429.  The outlet parts look like a connector or sump of some sort before the pump, very similar to the ribbed intake connector.  There is a smell from the dispenser as well as the drum, but I can’t tell whether this is the dispenser itself or just odors arising from somewhere else in the machine.

So, over the weekend did a short soak with a full strength ammonia  (just because there is still was an odor after my earlier cleaning and I haven’t tried ammonia before…), first pouring it in thru the detergent dispenser then draining some of it from the tub without spinning (trying to trap the ammonia in the outlet).  After the soak and rinsing a few times, I did the same thing with a 50/50 mix of bleach and water, including using a sprayer in the detergent dispenser trying to get all interior surfaces of the connector.  Then I rinsed and dried the dispenser and tub.  While the tub was dry, it didn’t smell too bad (although the dispensed did smell), but when it was wet again, there was still somewhat of a smell.

So this is where I am now.  I am going to try the full loads with 4 scoops of Nu Fresh, then rinse and dry the machine, and subsequently fill it again to see whether it still smells when it is wet.  If so, I am going to try a soak similar to what I did on the weekend, but do a long soak time.  I will use 4 scoops of Nu Fresh in really hot water, and then drain some of it to try to get the solution to sit in then outlet connector.  At the same time I will make a slurry of Nu Fresh and try to dribble it down the detergent dispenser and let that soak as well.

I feel like I’m starting to make some progress, so hopefully this will clear up the residual problem and I will be on to a maintenance routine with Nu Fresh.  (I can only hope…)

I’ll keep you posted.   

From: Thomas []
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 1:17 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

No, no, no…  I will provide the material until we figure out what is going on.

This is really important to me. I need to know why the Nu Fresh is not working.

You are very helpful with the reports. The cost of the stuff is minimal compared to the information I will get.

I am a problem solving engineer that is really bored nowadays so this is fun!

Heck your doing all the work ;-)

I have given away a couple dozen buckets so far and you are one of the few people that have reported back.

I have refunded your purchase ‘cause I already sent you another bucket.

OK back to the problem:

Your machine must have a “dead end” of some sort in the plumbing that has the bulk of the contamination trapped in it. It is not really contacted by any of the chemicals that have been used. The growth returns really fast because of the amount that is there in the dead end to re-infect.

Soooooo…….

Given Fick’s first law of diffusion, concentration depletion and diffusivity in general there is only one way of attacking the stuff in the dead end. You must get a really high concentration in the wash water and then the machine must sit completely filled with water and Nu Fresh “soaking” for as long as possible. Days if possible. This will give the molecules of Nu Fresh plenty of time to slowly diffuse down the dead end to reach the stuff in the back. Better yet, turn the machine on for a minute or two to stir up the mixture then shut down again for a few hours. Repeat as is convenient. This will increase the concentration at the entrance to the dead end and will drive the molecules a little more down the path.

Gosh I love this “black box” engineering. It is all pure theory. Dang, I’m a real nerd ….

Anyway

Later

Thanks for your help.

From:  []
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 6:10 PM
To: 'Thomas'
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Hi, Thomas.

I appreciate your offer to send more Nu Fresh, but I don’t want to take advantage of your generosity.  I will order some from the website.

The Nu Fresh is the best thing I’ve used so far so I am going to continue with it, and hopefully, eventually it will fix the problem.

Yes, the problem is really bad.  I’m not sure why everything was fine until recently.  Anyway, I’ve done everything I could possibly think of to fix it, including all of the following (don’t laugh…).  Even with all of this, the clothes still smell bad.  I have also started hanging the wash out on the line after drying in the dryer, to try to air them out and sun bleach them.  This has helped for some items, but for others if you try to wear the clothes the sickening smell remains.

1.        Bleach- Ever since I had the washer, I was running a hot cycle with bleach periodically as per the owner’s manual.  But when the problem occurred, I did several cycles back to back including an overnight soak.  (I’m not sure whether this was the best thing for the machine, but it’s no good to me as it is, anyway!)

2.        Baking soda

3.        Vinegar

4.        Baking soda and vinegar together

5.        Liquid peroxide

6.        Affresh  (this did absolutely nothing)

7.        Smellywasher-this helped a little, but not much and added it’s own peculiar smell

8.        20 Mule Team Borax (with wash and by itself and followed by vinegar rinse)

9.        Oxyfresh (with wash and by itself)

10.     OxyBoost (the same as Oxyfresh, but supposed to be more concentrated and less detergent)

11.     Lysol spray held right up against the holes in the drum and entire circumference of drum sprayed

12.     Running extra rinse cycles after completing the laundry to try to rinse the inside of the machine (I am still doing this every time I am finished with the wash)

13.     A small fan placed inside the washer after completing washing, to dry the inside (Ever since I had the washer I have left the detergent dispenser and door wide open all the time except for when in use)

14.     A shop vac to try to pull out the residual water that is supposed to be left in the machine-nothing really comes out.  I guess the residual water is somewhere inaccessible.

15.     NuFresh

Earlier today I got some liquid institutional bathroom cleaner that is supposed to remove soap scum, and did a two hour hot soak with a strong concentration of this- thinking that if the mildew is growing on the soap, try to get rid of the scum.  However, since you can’t scrub or wipe the affected surfaces I don’t think this would be as effective as it would on an exposed surface.  After several rinses, I did a two hour soak with NuFresh.  The machine smells better, but I’ve been fooled by this before…

I’ll take your advice and run some really full loads with 4 scoops of NuFresh in the next few days and see what happens.  After messing with this all day today, I’m pretty much “washered-out” for the present.

Thanks.

From: Thomas []
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:55 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

You do have a tough problem.

OK, this is ticking me off. Tell you what, use 4 scoops per load from now on. That will crank up the concentration so it should be more effective. I will send you another bucket. And another and another until we beat this thing.

I’m taking this personally now. I will not be defeated!   ;-) 

You must have a large build up in the machine and it may take a while to control. But once it is under control only 2-4 scoops per week should hold it under control.

Try to do full loads for a while. That will make sure all the wetted surfaces in the machine will get contact with the Nu Fresh.

Nu Fresh should never make things worse because of the way it works.

From:  []
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:53 AM
To: 'Thomas'
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

I did two more loads this morning, and things seem to be worse.

But I am not necessarily taking this as a bad sign.  I read somewhere (on the Smellywasher bottle, I believe) that things might get worse before they get better.  However, with Smellywasher the washer smell didn’t get worse, but after repeated cycles using it the machine had a “maple syrup” smell in addition to the existing bad washer smell.

I am down to a tablespoon or so of detergent per load.  I have never used liquid fabric softener.

I have a “high efficiency” machine- Bosch.  It’s less than two years old, but the problem just started a few months ago.  Bosch doesn’t want to hear anything about it.

I understand there have been some class action suites against some manufacturers-Maytag and I believe Sears at least.  I did not see anything about Bosch.

From: Thomas []
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 11:17 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

What kind of washer do you have? A new high efficiency version or the standard version?

Later

From:  []
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:58 AM
To: 'customerservice@nufreshnow.com''
Subject: FW: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Forgot to say-used 2 scoops for all.

From:  []
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:32 AM
To: 'customerservice@nufreshnow.com'
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Hi, Tom.

Well, this is the best of anything I have tried so far.

I did a two hour soak with hot water (no laundry), then five loads of laundry using either hot or warm water.

Clothes that were never “contaminated” by the smell of the old washer did not seem to have absorbed the smell.  For items that had the washer odor, it was reduced considerably.

The odor from the machine itself is reduced, maybe 50-60%.

I will update you after a few more loads.

Rose

From: customerservice@nufreshnow.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:46 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

I hope it works for you too. You appear to have a tough problem. I will be happy to find out that it works on the extreme case.

Later

From:  []
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:23 AM
To: customerservice@nufreshnow.com
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Hi, Tom.

I rec’d the package of NuFresh today.  Thank you.

I am collecting all my smelly items right now to try it out. I hope this is the fix!!

Will let you know soon…

Rose

From: customerservice@nufreshnow.com 
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:41 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Well I guess I’m getting old. I forgot that I was the one that told you what it was… that’s how all this started …

I’ll send you a bucket

Later

From:  []
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 12:37 PM
To: customerservice@nufreshnow.com
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Tom, I did not find specifically that Nu Fresh is borax based.  I just looked up the active ingredient.  There were tons of hits, and just about every one said the compound was borax.

Thank you for your very generous offer.  I’d love to try it as I am just about ready to move the washer in to the garage!!!!!!!!  I would LOVE to have the problem fixed.

Believe me, if this works I will REALLY sing your praises!

Thanks.

From: customerservice@nufreshnow.com [mailto:customerservice@nufreshnow.com]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 9:33 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Thanks for the info. Nu Fresh is pure borax. Sodium Borate Decahydrate.

20 Mule Team is a low concentration mixed with a lot of other stuff. To get enough active material for a difficult case you need to add so much that sudsing is an issue.

Where on the internet did you find the info that Nu Fresh is borax based? That is a secret that I put on the label not on the website ?!?!

Anyway …

Tell you what … I’ll send you a bucket for free if you give me feedback on how well it works.

You seem to have as bad of a problem as I had. So you would make a good “guinea pig” to see how well it works for you.

Send me your mailing address.

BTW I just got a comment from someone that is reporting results for a free bucket:

Thomas, rec'd your product last week! Thank you very much. I have washed two small loads with it, and it looks like it is working!!

No smells as of today! I am going to wash all the towels this weekend, and will give you a report again in a week or two when they are all used. My right hand man noticed it today, "Hey my towels don't smell like mildew today" he said. So I told him that I rec'd the "Nu Fresh" and tried it out, he thought that was great. Thanks again for your product, and I'll give you another update in a week or so.

Steve S.

Regards

From:  []
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:50 AM
To: customerservice@nufreshnow.com
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Hi, Tom.  (Sorry about that error…)

Smelly washer cut down the odor somewhat but definitely did not remove it.  But this was after REPEATED (as in MANY) cycles.  In fairness, the label does say that you may have to keep repeating the treatment.  However, after these many cycles the machine started to smell a little like maple syrup.  This in conjunction with the original bad smell made me give up on it.  This was after I used almost the complete bottle in repeated cycles. (Ed. Comment: may have been citric based smell)

Being able to use Nu Fresh in routine washing rather than having to run repeated additional hot-extra hot cycles is an advantage.  I can’t help but think that running all the additional extra hot cycles is “wasting” water and energy, which is counter to the reasons for getting a high efficiency machine in the first place.

According to info on the Internet, the ingredient in Nu Fresh is the chemical compound found in Borax.  I’ve also tried using Borax along with detergent to eliminate the smell in the washer, but that didn’t seem to do the trick either.

What is the difference between Nu Fresh and plain old 20 Mule Team Borax?

Rose

From: customerservice@nufreshnow.com
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:25 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Ummm....actually I'm Tom ... the quote was from Megan S. 

I tried all that stuff too. Didn't work for me either.

Nu Fresh is used during regular washing so you save the extra load needed for all the other stuff. Does that matter to you?

Thanks

Later

-----Original Message-----
From:  []
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:09 AM
To: customerservice@nufreshnow.com
Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Hi, Megan.

Thanks for your response.

Yes, I was hoping that Nu Fresh would really work.  Since I've already tried Affresh, Smellywasher, and Oxyclean (and Oxyboost) without success, I didn't want to spend more money and time on the same thing.  (Not to mention getting my hopes up on a solution one more time...)

I'm going to order some and give it a try.  I'll let you know how I make out.

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----

From: customerservice@nufreshnow.com

Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:36 AM

To:

Subject: RE: Nu Fresh visitor's comment

Sure, I'll tell you, I put it on the label. Nu Fresh is the pure chemical: sodium borate decahydrate, technical grade.

Affresh is an oxidizer like Oxyclean. Just a lot stronger

Smellywasher's stuff is a mystery powder (that tastes a lot like table salt to me).

(Feedback comment: Someone has reported that it has citric acid in the mixture)

Anyway, Nu Fresh really does work if that is your concern.

Here is a quote from a survey comment I received at the same time I received your question:

hear.about: Friend

problem.level: LaundrtSmelledImmediately

Loads: 2

current.use: 2.Loads.A.Week

how.much.used: 1.scoop

comments: Great product - I recommend it to all my friends.  I used to use bleach once a month - leave the door open every load- and even say a rosary during the wash cycle.  Nu-fresh was the answer to my prayers - Thanks

Megan S.

This is typical (if a little over the top) but I liked it.

Hope this helps

Regards

-----Original Message-----

From: Trellix Mailer [mailto:webmaster@yourhostingaccount.com]

Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 12:42 PM

To: customerservice@nufreshnow.com

Subject: visitor's comment

name: Rose

email:

comment: Can you please tell me what the active ingredient in NuFresh is?

I've tried several products to deodorize my washing machine (without